Capcom has all but abandoned 2-D. The HD game your speaking of is much smaller in scale and the sprites aren't done by Capcom. Fuck that simpler yet complex shit. I want the genre to become as deep as possible. Whats this "put SNK back in their place" shit? First of all their barely even competitors now and Capcom can't compare to the kind of work SNK has put into the 2-D fighter genre. That was one of the stupidest statements I've ever heard. SNK fan's have tooken so much flak over the years from Capcom fans who'd rather play the same shit over and over again then try something new. Now SNK gains some modicum of recognition for doing an absolutely stunning game and douche bags like you diss them for no reason at all other then trying to defend their precious Capcom nostalgia. I got news for you. After the HD game your never going to see another Capcom 2-D fighter again(which they didn't Animate anyway). They're done, they're not in the game no more. What did this mean then?: I dont undertsand the hatred behind sf, sf has done it before in sf3,

And for the record SF4 looks like a good game to me. It looks like it plays like 3rd Strike which is good. They simplified the game way to much to appease to casual players though. SNK decided to do what the fan's want completly, Capcom decided to take less of a risk to try to make more money. KoF's12 is getting all this love because of this. Why are you acting like everyone is dissing SF4 for no reason. Where ever I go I see more Capcom fan's anyway, so I don't know where you get this shit.

'Fuck that simpler yet complex shit. I want the genre to become as deep as possible.' I am game for this shit, this is why love capcom, evrything they do, evry decsion they made lately is like my own decision, or i would have made, if i have the position, i love what they did with deadrising, lostplanet,dmc,basara series, resi5, and now sf. Even bioniccommando rearmed. You know capcom or any other company cant cater evryone be realistic if you can, so you might not be happy , i totally am. Well the hatred of sf is all over neogaf if you want to beginwith. My personal take on whole 2d figting games issue is they should be abandoned, after mugen there is nothing left in it. With mugen gamers have reached peak od 2d fighting, engine is limitless, rip any sprite and put in it. THe limit of mugen is your skills and source of ripping, else you can pratically acheive evrything related to 2d fighter. I have even played with original creations inpired form kof characters yet many times better than them, so much fan stuff, all more bett. than professional. When kof next will hit , some one will rip it and you can add them in mugen , as far as balance goes , you an fix it, as i said your skills is what it counts. So make something which gamers cant make in thier homes on pc like homemade food. In this case too i love capcom decsin of abandoning 2d. I am sure you would say things about arcades importance of 2d games in japan, but thats niche. 'SNK decided to do what the fan's want completly, Capcom decided to take less of a risk to try to make more money. KoF's12 is getting all this love because of this.' No all snk love is coming form noobs who even never played all kof before. Now on many boards they are talkign about playing kof old games. Its all visual feast , thats attracting unwary punterz. Kof fans are hardcore, even snk do shit they will eat that up like pizza, like kofgames built on old engines, its actually high time that they got some gfx sex with new engine after years. You can say whatever you want but make sure that i am not arguing and willing to change my opinion over capcom's decision.

Mugen has no balance period. Mugen can never play as good as the original 2-D fighter that the sprites are ripped from, ever. Mugen will never be fit for true tournament play, ever. We're talking about 2-D fighters I don't give a shit about 3-D action games that's not what this is about. The new Basara 2-D fighter game is developed by Arksy so don't bring it up again. Your an idiot if you think 2-D fighters are niche. Not that that matters though. A good genre is a good genre I don't give a fuck what the majority of gamers play. Every game series has hardcore fan's. I guarantee that theirs a shitload more Capcom elitists here in America then SNK elitists. This is a new engine you freakin retard. Did you think this was Atomiswave? Capcom is out purely to make money. SNK is actual doing something for its fan's and 2-D fighter fan's in general. Your just a casual gamer mugen obsessed person you have no right to talk on matters such as these. You talk like 3rd Strike just came out. You think SF4 isn't designed to attract people with it's graphics? SF4 is playing it safe and attracting as many casual/Nostalgic Idiots as they can. You realize your contradicting yourself? You say that SNK needs to drop it's old engine but then you say that it's attracting people with it's graphics and are leading in people it shouldn't. Learn to write better. I've barely passed any English classes throughout my entire life so don't say that you can't type properly. You have no clue what your talking about so please leave this thread.

I also have nothing against Capcom, heck I even like their decisions. You say you like it simple but you want 2-D gaming to die in general. Your argument's make no sense and what's sad is they probably do in your mind. "Kof fans are hardcore, even snk do shit they will eat that up like pizza, like kofgames built on old engines, its actually high time that they got some gfx sex with new engine after years." You don't even mention whether you think the Gameplay in these games is good or not you just assume they are bad because of their visuals. Not only that but your terminology is mixed up. Just because they use the same sprites doesn't mean it's the same engine.

Repeating You can say 'whatever' you want but make sure that i am not 'arguing' and willing to change my opinion over capcom's decision.

lol Decoy.. I dunno why you're goin on about other forums like GAF as if they're relevant. That place is the biggest group of bandwagon-jumping sheep I've seen. When people there get pissed and call the place a hive mind, they arent joking. Whenever it looks like a franchise will be "niche" outside of Japan or get a sort of small "revival" they like to get a head start on the fandom or something. All of the weaboos that spend their day in IRC download roms, isos and browse shi like Wikipedia and Hardcoregamer 101 then act like they know everythin there is to know and are the "authority" of it. They do the cycle for RPGs and fighting games mostly. All that GAF is good for is when they break some news.. which is usually just someone translating and posting news taken from the la-*test*-('") issue of Famitsu. Why people in the industry like that forum, I havent got a fuckin clue. They give themselves far too much cedit and will like to pat themselves on the back any chance they get. Mugen.. I never get why people liked that so much. Yeah you could make your own "dream match" and as you say, its limitless in tems of what you can include but the hit detection is crap and theres a lot of bullshit characters people make. Like Dalemushashi said, the balance isnt there. It's just a poor ass substitute/emulation of a real fighting game if you ask me. And why does Capcom need to put SNK "where they belong"? WTF does that even mean? If anything SNK is more about the fans thes days. Just look at how many of their games have also been brought over to other regions. SNK thinks about the world for their fighting games.. yes, they neve stopped thinking about fighing games! Unlike Capcom, who had to be begged by Capcom America to get the rights to Street Fighter IV and Bionic Commando. I'll be playing both of those games, btw.. but they really should have come sooner because as I see it, SNK is a big step ahead. I don't even give a shit about who's better, to tell you the truth. Pracically growing up in arcades, I've always been a big fan of both companies ... but when I see/hear dumb statements like "where they belong" I cant help it but say something.

Has anyone ever heard of 2D fighter maker 2nd? good fighter maker program, and you can make your own hitboxes for each attack. Its like Mugen but better IMO. Sure, making your own character may seem a pain in the butt, but the results are awesome, specially with this program which seems alot easier to figure how its works It comes with a demos wich is pretty good (cept for the secret character which is very buggy)

'when I see/hear dumb statements like "where they belong" I cant help it but say something.' I did not know that it will offend you or you people will take it to your heart or something. Anyways capcom is not small company, they are the biggest and best of the gamemakers from japan, always setting upstandard in genres and shit like that, so they cant churn out fighters early like snk,it is capcoms bussiness model to check market first, they have served fans before and it hardly serves well. I dont wanto see company go bankrupt and die by serving fans, i would rather want to make games for everyone and live. Sales/commercial value is important . There is interview of capcom gamereleasing bussiness model on MTV gaming, you read it out to understand, i agree to mostof capcoms decision. Why i said teach them a lesson coz i was pissed myself by all hatred lkike capcom can't pull of kof type stuff, as if capcom dont have artists or talent. Mugen is programmable, i have tweaked it enough to suit my balance, the gameplay hit mehanism are awkward by default, but as i said you can program anything on it, i was praising the engine, its quite flexible to modify to suit your all needs. Ofcourse programming knowledge is neccassary, as well as time, coz its chore and painstaking job but results are mindblowing. Its all subjective debate we are having, there is no right wrong in most of the debates online anyway.

You have to understand that SNK is better off purely serving the fan's then they are trying to jump into genres they are not used to. Capcom has the budget to try new things it's better for SNK to stick to their guns then make a high budget game in a genre they are not used to. SNK has branched out somewhat though with the handheld dating games and such. Capcom's a market leader because they hoe'd out. You keep saying that the fact that their more popular means something. Your blind if you think Mugen can ever replace what 2-D fighters create competitively. Anyone who thinks this has no right to even talk about 2-D fighters. Oh and this has little to do with opinions. Re-read my last two posts as your not realizing the contradictions your making.

In some way I inderstand what you mean, I realized Capcom milked their most popular series do death, eventually turning them into something that has nothing to do with the series itself (Megaman Battlenetwork). However I dont think they will dare to fuck up their games anymore, otherwise the fanbase would really get pissed forever. I only hope the best to this new SF game

Their are a few slightly pissed Capcom fans. But they always bring more good then bad so it's hard to complain. Like my cousin says that they are one of the laziest game companies from his experience but he still plays their games.

But we want sequels if they are like next resi, or the previous one. Fans like me want it, i have faith in gaming as long as there are capcom, konami, square and now my new favorite level5, are here making games. Be it sequels or new IPs, as long they are good and if they can drag it nicely. So tell me if capcom has one side of gamers like me who wants sequels and other side like your precious gaming self, what they can do? If company will serve me, my need, in anyway i will support them ofcourse, its quite natural, i mean if someone is happy and satisfied with product why other half gets pissed and put their opinion on others as if first half doesnt know shit. I might be contradicitng myslef for sure with my very old posts, coz i am beginning to realize new things in gaming. There is no right or wrong now, we are far ahead form that phase, its just what company caters your need, what suits your taste. I mean i have armyoftwo,condemned sequel, vegas sequel and burnout sequel lying like garbage , i didnt even play them for 5 minutes so boring for me, yet on other hand i loved layton and playing timehollow in japanese on ds. I am done with same shooters, yet not with adventures maybe, but not all adventures are good again, i loved condemened first but hated sequel, its just what is clicking my interest i will play. My pals lovoing vegas and army of two , world is changing or has changed, and i cant debate with them to quit playing those game or lecture them what real gaming is, the real gaming is entirely subjective matter, they hated yakuza too lol. Now here on these forums i have other bunch who are more into fighting games or snk. Everywhere we are having more debates thn solutions. This is confusion period for some, veen for developers, what they want to make. For e.g world ends with you is fresh new ip , they tried new concpet and its hit , they are planning sequel, initially they were afraid, and we are talking SE here, factory of sequels. If capcom will try something what if it will flop? And what about BC rearmed, isnt that good ? I am lovingit, kick ass remixes and gameplay, i would love to play shinobi remake like that, rather than goldenaxe sega is making. Even capcom hiring other companies to make thier games, it doesnt matter its under capcom flag, EX wasnt made by capcom either, its new fashion now, look at konami akira is hiring west to make sh games. Give me solution, to this , not what is you preference.

I can't stand when publishers get credit for stuff like that. The developer makes the game. The publisher may have some say in the game but they have nothing to do with making it. And yes it does matter. When you just want to look at big publishers your completely ignoring the companies that actual made the game you enjoy. Your giving the wrong people credit and it shows ignorance and disrespect for them. Just because you can't remember a name. Who is this Western developer that's designing the new SH game? Who developed SF EX? That's right you don't know. Your just like most ignorant ass gamers today. Your gonna just keep passing the credit to the big rich company you have heard of. And once again your saying what games are gonna be good or bad before they've even come out.