Last night on earth. We shine like the stars.

Last night on earth. We shine like the stars.
Killer 7 trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOCkZX_YNk Damn if K7 were a movie, I would hunt down a copy for the dvd now after seeing this trailer. I've never seen anything like it before. (Well I have, I just never saw a movie like Killer 7 that was in English.) I disagree with this comment. dragonhugger16 (3 months ago) Show Hide Marked as spam 0 Poor comment Good comment Reply | Spam Wow. JUST finished this game. The ending and the epilogues are... indescribably incredible. They're simply breathtakingly surreal. This game says so much about the world today, moreso than any book or movie ever has. While it's true that K7 does have a lot to say. You seriously can not be saying that K7 had a deeper message than any book. (Movie, I might agree on.) George Orwell's "1984". IMO it seems like K7 & SC for that matter were at least somewhat inspired by the 1984 novel.

Maybe I'm just slow but... Does in the japanese version, Iwazaru and all the ghosts talk without the distorted voices? I thought that version only had the text arranged to the dialog, so you actually understand what they tried to say with the distorted voice. But after watching that video I noticed Iwazaru talked with a normal voice

Yeah Travis & Iwazaru originally spoke with Silver Case style "camouflaged" voices. Or as some might call it the "Stephen Hawking" voice overs. You know you're playing a Kill the Past style game if you hear those robotic cryptic voice overs. You hear them during the Moonlight full moon end stage scenes in Moonlight Syndrome. Encrypted voices in Silver Case. Spirit voices in Killer 7. Encrypted voices in Flower, Sun & Rain. (The encryption is used to conceal Tokio Morishima's identity.) The rank battle intro voices in No More Heroes.

To add to Topdrunkee's confirmation; all the Remnant Psyches spoke through a babelfish translator, which well.....made some bizarre and haunting confrontations. Heres Mill's final appearance in the game as a Remnant Psyche in the Japanese version. Hearing "Garcie, don't cry" as it was originally is quite impacting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U3ie3fPI8w

I'll agree. It even seems like in the US version you can sometimes make out what the psyches are saying, but only at certain moments.

i've played through the jap version as well as the PAL version, and apart from iwazaru's voice being noticebaly different, it is still impossible to understand what they are saying without the subtitles

Mills speech in the JAP version is quite interesting I like to think Kun tells that story refering to Emir, just because as Mills said, "A person doesn't get into this line of work without a complicated past." (not sure if it means what i think it does)

Mills speech in the JAP version is quite interesting I like to think Kun tells that story refering to Emir, just because as Mills said, "A person doesn't get into this line of work without a complicated past." (not sure if it means what i think it does) Not to put you on the spot, but could you please explain to me why you feel that Kun Lan's story refers to a complicated past? As far as I recall it merely spoke about a young man who killed his mother, because she made incest love to him. His killer instinct rosed to the surface of his subconscious when his mother came onto him. Kun Lan is suppose to represent religious belief & reason. http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/769928.aspx Religious reason doesn't make logical sense. So some people with religious backgrounds come up with little moral parables to justify their actions, because they believe it to be true. Kun Lan's story justifies why a man would kill for a living. It does not in any way shape or form denote that the man in the story is Emir, because logically it just doesn't make any chronological sense. Emir became a killer ever since the first day he attended Coburn Elementary. How can Emir awaken his killer spirit if it already awakened during his preteen years? (Plus we have to take into account that Emir has been fostered by a government agent who calls himself Harman Smith ever since he was 13 yrs. old shortly after the Union Hotel murders.) When people assume that Emir is being spoken about in Kun Lan's parable. What they are doing is taken Kun Lan's story out of context. I feel that the Kun story only refers to a moral of rationality (to kill) that Emir may repeat constantly inside his head. Which is why it (Harman/Kun) is cooped up in the forbidden room, because it's a "past sense of self" that Emir wishes to forget. Now if you ask me, the Hobert FBI tapes exemplify one who has a complicated past. It's these tapes that I believe Mills was referring to. http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/fbi.htm http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape1.wav http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape3.wav http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape5.wav http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape6.wav http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape7.wav http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/FBITape8.wav The following is a picture that I made based off of the information contained within the tapes above.

I would do the same for Kun Lan's story, but really there's no sense to, because all I would be conjuring up is information about a guy who killed his mother. I don't even know who the guy is. I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot. What I am trying to do. Is to explain the immense difference between Kun Lan's story that's more symbolic than anything else. To Hobert's story about Emir which sounds more factual to the Emir Parkreiner who we know in the game Killer 7. Back to Kun's story... The young man in Kun Lan's story is metaphorical, he could represent anybody you want him to represent. He could be talking about Emir, he could be talking about himself, or Kun Lan could even be speaking about you. It doesn't really matter, because the young man in the story represents whom ever we want him to represent. Hobert's account of Emir reads like a top secret investigation on a kid named Emir, because that's exactly what he was paid to do. Many people seem to ignore Hobert's account in favour of Kun Lan's story. Yet I can't understand why since Kun Lan's story doesn't signal anybody out specifically. Nor does his story make any chronological sense. Hobert's account about Emir does follow chronological order, & he goes into candid detail about how someone within the government has killed off all his (Emir's) family & friends. Therefore erasing any connection to an identity that Emir may have once had. It's been noted that Emir's parents weren't even his real parents to begin with. (One of them even has the same name as Sumio's partner "KATHERINE") In one of the tapes, Hobert hints at Emir's identification profiles being fabricated, because his date of birth doesn't make any logical sense. If his date of birth doesn't match up, & his parents were mere stooges installed by the government, than that too would conclude that his assumed identity "Emir Parkreiner" is not real either. Almost everything about Emir's past is a lie. This is what I would consider... a complicated past. The same past that I believe that Chris Mill's is referring to.

oh ok, that answered alot, thanks.

Actually in HIK7 Garcian is the first Emir < 1942 > EMIR PARKREINER was born. Dimitri disappeared from society and was not heard from again. < 1946 > In the political turmoil following Japan's defeat in World War II, the LIBERAL PARTY proved itself so inept that it couldn't pay for the rental of its own facilities. TORU FUKUSHIMA was working as an aide to a member of the Japanese Diet, when he was contacted by the U. N. PARTY. Fukushima became a political "architect" for the U. N. Party. < 1948 > According to official records, Emir Parkreiner's parents died in a car accident. < 1952 > Emir Parkreiner killed his parents and disappeared from society. At the time, he had been living with his parents, under the surveillance of the U. S. Government in an isolated state. < 1953 > The "UNION 7" wrote "the Yakumo Cabinet Policy" . The Union 7 was comprised of young Japanese political figures, who were members of the Liberal Party, though they stood apart from the internal conflict that threw the party into chaos. The Yakumo was given to the Liberal Party's chief secretary, but it vanished. The Union 7 was dissolved as a group. The following year, the U. N. Party overtook the Liberal Party in the political arena. < 1954 > The horrific crimes committed by the killer known as "THE BLOODY HEARTLAND" became serious problems to society. < 1955 > The Union 7 attended a secret meeting at the Union Hotel, which was called "the Yakumo Secret Meeting." They were killed by a serial murderer, though the whole incident was hushed up. The affair was called "Killer7." On the rooftop of the Union Hotel, Harman Smith met a dying boy with three eyes. The boy was Emir Parkreiner. (13 years old) Harman Deltahead and Kun Lan resurrected. < 1957 > The SECOND SMITH SYNDICATE was formed with seven personae. They were called "KILLER7". I guess that Harman turned Emir into an his persona (in the HIK7 canon) and then led him to form the second smith syndicate after having convinced him of being Garcian Smith. I guess that Dan wasn't an Harman persona yet, because in the "MULTIFOLIATE PERSONAE PHENOMENON" section, they say that he becaomes an Harman persona in 1975. < 1957 > The SECOND SMITH SYNDICATE was formed with seven personae. They were called "KILLER7". By counting Harman and not Dan, they are seven. I guess this is the biggest difference between the game timeline and the HIK7 timeline; In the game we see Dan dying with the other smiths, that could not be true in the book timeline, because he couldn't have become a persona; he becomes a persona only in 1975 and Garcie obtains the power to ressurect deads in 1975 too. So he could not even be an Harman servant like Samantha Sitbon. Also I remember that in the game the second smith syndicate was formed much later, but i am not sure.

What would happen if Harman died? would every persona within him disappear?

Harman Smith is an immortal divine being that uses various stock bodies. Like topdrunkee always says this is a ripoff of the silver eye from silver case. People generally belives that there are tree phisical harman smith: the one in the trailerhouse, the young one and the dead one into the safe. < 1778 > Harman Smith unexpectedly quit professional assassination. He disappeared from society and history. Dimitri was rejected by the core persona. The core persona separated from Harman Smith and became Harman Deltahead, once more. < 1780 > Harman Deltahead founded Coburn Elementary School and became the school's first principal. Secret underground organizations funded Harman Deltahead and Coburn. They wanted Coburn to specialize in educating individuals who would spread and cultivate capitalism. According to the book, this is when Harman becomes a divine spirit, just like kun lan. He separates himself from his phisical body, who acquires an his own will and founds Coburn elementary school. (I guess that Dimitri Nightmare worked in the school as well, maybe as an Harman Deltahead's persona, because he probably is an ancestor of Greg Nightmare, but it's not important.) < 1955 > The Union 7 attended a secret meeting at the Union Hotel, which was called "the Yakumo Secret Meeting." They were killed by a serial murderer, though the whole incident was hushed up. The affair was called "Killer7." On the rooftop of the Union Hotel, Harman Smith met a dying boy with three eyes. The boy was Emir Parkreiner. Harman Deltahead and Kun Lan resurrected. Here, new phisical hosts for Harman and Kun have been created. I dunno who created them; Harman, Kun Lan, the government, Santa Claus, I really don't care. As we apprend from the jako reports, at the time the game takes place, the phisical host of Kun is an old man (like Harman's, but he's senile) and is reclused in a special cell underground Atlanta, Georgia. The phisical host of Harman is the one in the trailerhouse (Controlled by Jako) < 2000 > Garcian Smith succeeded in resurrecting all of the fallen personae. The Second Smith Syndicate was back. However, Dan Smith tried to kill Harman in a fit of lunacy. Harman was wounded mortally; he fell into a state of suspended animation. Samantha left her work as a killer-persona and began taking care of him. That's why Harman is inconcious most of the time and Jako can control him using Samantha. In the game, they mixed the assassination of the smiths and the raid at the union hotel when Emir killed the union 7 and shoot his head. We can just assume that the assassination of Dan is just an Emir allucination, or maybe Dan was trying to stop Emir from reconstruct his memories, and it would fix. The thing that I really cannot understeand is why and when the fuck Emir killed the phisical Harman that was running Coburn. Was he a member of the Union 7? Man, i really can't understeand that. (I'm always speaking about the HIK7 timeline) Emir became an Harman Persona after he killed the Union7 and then he formed the smith syndicate. The only acceptable theory is that Harman Deltahead was the leader of the union7. Actually, in coburn they were creating killers for the yakumo party. About the Young Harman: Like topdrunkee says, he has not a key role in the plot, but I have a my own theory about him. I don't think he's a government agent acting like Harman. For the simple reason that there is that mother fucker dimitri next to him. Emir doesn't know Dimitri, so there would be no reason to create a fake one. And Dimitri should be a goddamn 300 years old guy. So he must be an host body of Harman. Now, i was originally convinced that he is the same Harman that was in the trailerhouse, now awakened by jhonny gagnon. He's always sit down. And he speaks about the dead Harman in the safe like he was another person. But, fuck < 1999 > Samantha Smith--who was a temporary persona of Harman--killed JOHNNY GAGNON. Jhonny Gagnon died in 1999. So my original theory belongs to the fuckin' garbage. I'm still convinced that the Young Harman is the same that was in the trailerhouse, but i really cannot immagine who the hell took the body and recovered it. Now topdrunkee will kill me because all this spiritual stuff is just a red herring and i made a kilometrical post talking about nothing, LOL. Forgive me. I'm sick in these days and I got too much free time. XDDD EDIT: Now I am convinced that Harman Deltahead that was running coburn was the leader of Union 7. From the final speach of the Young Harman: My name is Harman Smith, I am the man you saw in your past. Do you remember? The incident were six people were murdered in this hotel? (The Union Hotel, where the Union7 has been killed) <...>It consisted of seven members, but the leader wasn't included in the seven. Later investigations found his dead body into the safe of the school. The investigative unit call them "the Killer7". In the game he's referring to the Smith Alliance, but < 1955 > The Union 7 attended a secret meeting at the Union Hotel, which was called "the Yakumo Secret Meeting." They were killed by a serial murderer, though the whole incident was hushed up. The affair was called "Killer7." I guess it makes sense.

Actually in HIK7 Garcian is the first Emir < 1942 > EMIR PARKREINER was born. < 1948 > According to official records, Emir Parkreiner's parents died in a car accident. < 1952 > Emir Parkreiner killed his parents and disappeared from society. At the time, he had been living with his parents, under the surveillance of the U. S. Government in an isolated state. < 1954 > The horrific crimes committed by the killer known as "THE BLOODY HEARTLAND" became serious problems to society. < 1955 > The Union 7 attended a secret meeting at the Union Hotel, which was called "the Yakumo Secret Meeting." They were killed by a serial murderer, though the whole incident was hushed up. The affair was called "Killer7." On the rooftop of the Union Hotel, Harman Smith met a dying boy with three eyes. The boy was Emir Parkreiner. (13 years old) Harman Deltahead and Kun Lan resurrected. < 1957 > The SECOND SMITH SYNDICATE was formed with seven personae. They were called "KILLER7". Emir is just a name, it doesn't prove one's identity. The FBI tapes in the game state that a guy named Emir was born in 1942 & died during 1952. When I claim that there is more than one Emir. What I'm actually saying is that the name Emir Parkreiner, is an alias. In other words it's a fake name. A codename of some sort. The name Emir is just an alternate identity. http://www.textfiles.com/survival/dissapp.txt It's a pretty standard government cover operation. If your friends & family were to die tommorow, & than you get kidnapped right after. It would be easy for the kidnappers to change & shape your own identity & future against your own will. That's exactly what happened to our Emir Parkreiner. I guess that Harman turned Emir into an his persona (in the HIK7 canon) and then led him to form the second smith syndicate after having convinced him of being Garcian Smith. Emir became or thought he was Garcian after his mental breakdown during the Union Hotel murders. By counting Harman and not Dan, they are seven. I guess this is the biggest difference between the game timeline and the HIK7 timeline; In the game we see Dan dying with the other smiths, that could not be true in the book timeline, because he couldn't have become a persona; he becomes a persona only in 1975 and Garcie obtains the power to ressurect deads in 1975 too. So he could not even be an Harman servant like Samantha Sitbon. Also I remember that in the game the second smith syndicate was formed much later, but i am not sure. The Union Hotel incident involved the murder of the Union 7. (Japanese politicians.) Not the Killer 7. The Union 7's deaths were covered up by using the name Killer 7 as a ruse. The Killer 7 are an urban myth. The real Killer 7 incident occurred at a French hotel. (The one where Bloody Heartland kills 7 random people with the surname smith.) Even then, who's to say if the victims from the French hotel are the real K7. The info that's laid out in the HIK 7 timeline is ambiguous. IMO, you're not supposed to know exactly when, or where the Killer 7 formed. Killer 7 operates on a system of compartmentalization http://www.answers.com/topic/compartmentalization-intelligence In other words: Information on a need to know basis. You only know & learn what you're supposed to know. In order to get the job done. Harman Smith is an immortal divine being that uses various stock bodies. Like topdrunkee always says this is a ripoff of the silver eye from silver case. He separates himself from his phisical body, who acquires an his own will and founds Coburn elementary school. I probably need to set up a glossary to explain the terminology that I use. In order to avoid misunderstanding. Although I do have a character section for "divine spirits & gods". It doesn't actually mean that they are gods or divine spirits. These characters are listed as such, because there's no other way to describe them. It's false to believe that the likes of Harman, Kun Lan, Uehara Kamui,etc. actually are gods. (In the biblical sense.) They are considered gods, because they have urban myths surrounding them that make them appear legendary & god like. (Cogito Ergo Sum) Note: Some characters actually are gods such as Mithra. Harman is not immortal. It's true that Harman is somewhat of a rip of the silver eye. The Silver eyes are said to grant immortality, but in actuality all they do is transmigrate your consciousness between hosts. Or transmigration of the soul. It's called metempsychosis. http://www.bartleby.com/65/tr/transmig.html All silvereyes do is create the illusion of immortality. The reason why there's more than one Harman is, because he transmigrated his soul between bodies. That's what grants him the illusion of immortality. It's not that he's immortal. (He's not.) He just transfers his souls into a different body. Our souls are infinite. When our body dies the soul will still live on. We can continue living if we can somehow find a way to inhabit the body of an other. According to the book, this is when Harman becomes a divine spirit, just like kun lan. Kun Lan (The one in the game at least.) is a tulpa thought form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa A tulpa is, in Tibetan mysticism, a being or object which is created through willpower, visualisation, attention and focus, concerted intentionality and ritual. In other words, it is a materialized thought that has taken physical form Kun Lan is merely a holographic like image that emerges from our own concentrated will. In HIK 7 the real Kun lan is said to be an old man hidden underneath the United States in an asylum facility. Which means that the Kun Lan we see is really just an out of body experience of the real Kun Lan. That & I also believe that he just emerges from fragments of our collective will. If you notice, nobody really talks about Kun Lan in Killer 7. Note: Kurahashi, & Akiba don't count, because they're dead when they interact with Kun. They probably influenced Matsuken's state of reality which is why he was able to see & speak with Kun Lan. IMO, Mill's only speaks about Kun Lan in order to create the repetition that's needed to indoctrinate Emir into continuing with his Killer 7 facade. ----- Which would add credence that Kun Lan really is just a figment of every bodies imagination that was birthed life through our concerted belief that such a being exist. This again leads to cogito ergo sum. Which means that he exists, because we think he does. http://www.davisanddavis.org/harvey/tulpa.html The above link goes into detail with how these tulpa lifeforms have minds of their own once they materialize from our own thoughts. Now topdrunkee will kill me because all this spiritual stuff is just a red herring and i made a kilometrical post talking about nothing, LOL. I guess so. There is a reason why I label them red herrings. I'm confused as hell now about what's going on in Killer 7 after reading through your post. Which is why IMO, that the spiritual themes really were devised just to lead people away from the main plot of the story. (The geopolitics.) Even my own understanding of Killer 7's plot goes down the shitter once I try to place Killer 7's spiritual divine themes within the same context as K7's main plot. (Geopolitics between U.S. & Japan.) The spiritual themes should only be referenced outside of the main plot where they belong. The spiritual themes connect to the overall universe of Kill the Past, but they only serve to confuse the player when placing them beside the same context as K7's main plot arc. Harman Deltahead was the leader of the union7. Actually, in coburn they were creating killers for the yakumo party. Toru Fukushima was the leader of the Union 7 before they dissolved. Harman can't be part of the Union 7, because he's an agent of the United States. The Union 7 are a Japanese political party composed of former Japanese Liberals.

Toru Fukushima was the leader of the Union 7 before they dissolved. Harman can't be part of the Union 7, because he's an agent of the United States. The Union 7 are a Japanese political party composed of former Japanese Liberals. I was talking about the HIK7 canon, not of the game's. In the game the Union7 is just mentioned and it's not relevant for the plot. Almost everything is different from the game, I guess the only thing of the book that must be considered to understeand the plot of the game is the explanation of the various political partys.

Unless I missed something, not even in HIK7 is said that Harman has any relation to the Union 7, much less him being the leader. It is implied (not certain), that Harman found Emir Parkreiner at the night of the murders. It is also implied that Emir was not 100% successful in his attempt of killing the Union 7. Judging from the Kamui incident in SC, Emir was probably thwarted in his attempt. Which would explain why Harman found him "dying" on the rooftop. Incidentally, the boy had three eyes, which would imply that Emir is the next Karma cycle to Dimitri Nightmare (who in my opinion is the one pulling Harman's strings, put just poses as his bodyguard. Maybe, like Emir, Nightmare wants Harman to be the leader but Nightmare is really the brain making Harman speak and move. Even then, Harman remains a puppet figure, or as Illnifique says, a tulpa). (By the way, this is probably nothing, but have you noticed how D.N.'s model is similar to Emir's in the game? If you don't pay attention to his face, he could be mistaken for Garcian...) In HIK7 it is simply said that Harman Deltahead founded Coburn in which were taught values of capitalism. US values. Japan isn't even mentioned. Then he was shot along with Kun Lan while playing chess (If you ask my opinion on the culprit, I'd say Dimitri Nightmare. By the time Harman and Kun Lan got killed, Harman had already got rid of Dimitri's influence. You could turn this upside down, and think that it was really Dimitri who got rid of Harman, and probably Kun Lan's influence, spiritually speaking. But then again, in the timeline at least, Harman seemed to be a tangible person by the time he got killed, since he was found dead with Kun Lan. Considering this, and the laws of Karma, positions were reversed, and now Dimitri is a tangible person -Emir-, while Harman and Kun Lan are now influences). Which makes me think simply that in the final game, things were moved out of place and sometimes out of context. The chessboard murder, Coburn as a means of brainwashing, etc.

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