Wow Kitano, now that's impressive. For awhile there, I actually thought that was canon until you said Lospass hotel. (The name of the hotel is "Flower, Sun, & Rain". Lospass is just the name of the island that FSR resides in.) LOL at Con getting ran over. That ish is priceless. If that's the actual plot of your HIK 7 comic, than I know we're going to be in for a real treat. It has a nice pulp feel to it. It has the depth & complexity that the official K7 comic didn't have. (Plus the art style you use for the comic f'ng rocks.) I can't really disagree with anything you said, or anything in your story, because it all sounds official to moi. (To the point that I thought it actually was official, lol.) For real though I've only came across at least one other person at Youtube who understands the game's plot the way you do. (Unless you happen to be the same person.) You know I was actually thinking of appointing you as successor of the website awhile back (Jedi has control of the forum.), but I think I'll stick around awhile longer, since NMH as piqued my interest again. (Plus I need to rearrange the lay out into a typical database/encyclopedia format. Which I will be busy working on this month.) Anyway, I think there might have been a close relationship between Matsuken and Harman Smith long ago. This Toru Fukushima/ Harman Smith bit from Hand in Killer7 is a possible hint to this. Sounds logical. Too bad with the game we got. We went from Matsuken being a nobody. To hours later Matsuken being the only force in Japan that had enough political pull to rival the United States. (Like Jedi Link once said. It's funny how (politically) fast everybody acted in Killer 7. In real life, the events that occurred in K7 would have took a duration of at least 10 years more or less. Rather than just 4 yrs like the game.) I also think that the Asian Security Treaty affair was replaced by the Coburn Elementary School affair in the final product. Can you explain that? I don't really get it. Coburn manufactured American assassins & politicians by indoctrinating them with foreign ideologies. (Japanese right extremism.) I can't really see how it would relate with the security treaty. Emir here is more important that you may think, he represents Harman's king piece (the Ace) and is also representative of the truth inside the game. It's just that he gets continually handed back and forth to either Kun Lan or Harman Smith. Nah, I think we're on the same level. We just use different terminology. You say Kun & Harm. I usually talk about how Emir is constantly being used by both Japan & the US. Which in the end, practically means the same thing. Emir (Killer 7) is that wild card in the equation that has the ability to tilt the status quo either way. (East or West. It depends upon what Emir decides.) As for Emir, I never said that he wasn't important. I just said that he's not THAT important that he would be impervious to death. (No More Heroes true ending.) A lot of majour characters get killed off like nobodies in Suda's own games. That's why his games feel like novels. Only in novels do I ever see main characters get killed off like chumps. (That & Silent Hill 3, although I hated the story & dialogue for that game. Here's to hoping that SH 6 is a return to SH 2's style. I already know that SH 5 is going to be another SH, SH 3 like affair. So I won't even bother with that game.) The way I see it, Emir's role was finished with Killer 7. Emir imo, is that final red emergency button that you push when you want to blow everything up. Originally (Or at least what I think was supposed to happen before Y. Harman intervened.) Emir was supposed to just kill Matsuken, as a supposed order by Harman Smith. However Harman Smith disappeared during Smile, so it left Emir questioning the reality of his situation. (It's not that Harman actually disappeared. Somebody killed Samantha, so she couldn't do the little pretend Shogun Samurai ritual that Emir likes to do before every mission.) This is when those two random fucks Vermilion & Y. Harman pop in. I'm not sure what Verm & Y.Harm's relation is with each other, but it is certain that they know each other imo, because Y. Harm directs Emir to her during Smile 2. Verm her self spouts all this "relative truth" rhetoric to Emir that Y.Harm probably would've told Emir himself, but Y.Harm used a proxy instead. (Verm, IMO is Y. Harm's proxy. She does all the dirty work that Y. Harm can't. Possibly due to political reasons. Much similar to how I view Chris Mills as a proxy for the Jaco Checkbox reports. Mills had to have gotten those contracts from somewhere deep rooted inside the government.) BTW Verm & Y. Harm are badass names. I think I'll address them as such from now on, heh heh.

Shit, you're right, I keep calling the Flower Sun and Rain Hotel "Lospass" Hotel, the name of the island. Anyhow, the thing with Coburn, I was specifically thinking of the vote manipulation aspect. Oh, and this "Asian Security Treaty" it's not the Japan-US Security Treaty we all know. I'm talking about the so-called "Asian Security Protocol" mentioned in HIK7. The fact that the school was also being used as a breeding ground for politicians, misinformation agents and assassins loyal to Japan but working in sensitive political positions among the US government and society remains here. In HIK7, Coburn was only mentioned as being a school founded by Harman Deltahead, in where values of capitalism were to be spread. That's all. But the real geopolitical flow manipulation began with the rigging of the Asian Security Protocol in '75 (this is not the Japan-US Security Treaty, this is some -fictional- meeting to discuss Energy Security issues): Harman Smith was an agent who took investigation and assassination missions from the U. S. Government, when he was young. He is part of the Smith Syndicate--and the leader of the Killer7, who are his seven personae via the Multifoliate Personae Phenomenon. You might want to know what sort of investigation he was doing. Well, it looks like his main gig was behind-the-scenes activity, relating to underground political movement. Twenty-eight years ago, in Hakone, Japan, Harman Smith received a special kind of mission, to investigate the probability of some votes. Harman received the mission from a man named Toru Fukushima. He is one of the members of the Union 7, who wrote the Yakumo Cabinet Policy. He is also an 'architect,' who worked as a line of communication between the U. N. Party and the U. S. Government, at the time of the Yakumo's creation. He later became the head figure of the U. N. Party. Harman and Fukushima met for the first time, when Fukushima gave him his mission. Fukushima summoned Harman, through his connections with the U. S. Government--the U. N. Party was then a puppet government, under the U. S. Government. An international conference was to be held in Hakone, to decide upon solutions to energy security problems in Asian regions. The conference was called the Asian Security Protocol Meeting. Rumour has it that there were three plans prepared for the meeting: 1: The Pipe Plan, mainly for supporting nations grouped in South Asia. 2: The Massive Plan, for the consultative nations at the conference, such as the European Union and the U.S. Government. 3: The Civic Plan, for the EAST. Among these three plans, one plan was selected via votes from the participating countries. However, no official announcement came forth declaring which plans was selected. The day before the meeting, Harman Smith had investigated each country's inten- tions. He knew the way that everyone would vote. He used his own means to get this information. Fukushima used Harman's report to prearrange the behind-the-scenes negotiations before the meeting. He manipulated the votes of the attending countries. In other words, as I had encouraged Ulmeyda to do . . . Fukushima drew a picture: a picture that influenced the power structure of the coming thirty years. However, even then, Fukushima was not the mastermind behind it all. At any rate . . . back then is when everything was decided. The history of the world became maligned.

Ah, I see it now. Yeah the vote manipulation does seem to be inspired from the Asian security protocol. Alright then. But that does bring up the next question I wanted to ask. If some of the stuff that Emir/Garcian sees (like the Remnant Psyches and some things like the "zombie" Kurahashi and Akiba), as well as his ability to switch out with the other personalities that he thinks he has, are just products of his mental shield, how can Curtis recognize Dan? Is it some kind of collective insanity? Does it have to do with the fact that Dan actually was absorbed by Harman, and that that's somehow reaching through Emir for some reason? Curtis can see Dan, because Dan is actually standing there right in front of him. Emir can tap into Harman Smith's Multifolate Personae" thingamajig because he believes that he is Garcian. http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/3rdeye.htm When Harman transforms into a Persona, he actually transforms into that person. (With the personality, voices, & mannerisms intact.) Emir can also transform into the other personae, because he thinks he's Garcian. Remember once Emir finally realizes that he is not Garcian during the end of the game. He actually loses the ability to morph into the Smith Syndicate. The Garcian persona was the link that gave him that Harman Smith ability. And also, the timeline talks about how the Second Smith Syndicate fought Heaven Smiles in the past, and gives details like how a "mysterious woman" took them all down and how Dan ended up crippling Harman, but that doesn't seem to work well with the idea that the personalities that we see in the game are just delusions. So is that just stuff that was for earlier versions of the game that doesn't fit with the finished product? See now I'm getting confused here. The delusion is that Emir thinks he's Garcian Smith. A member of the Killer 7. In Emir's mind, the concept of him actually being separate from the Killer 7 is ridiculous. It just doesn't compute. Since Emir believes with all his life that he is Garcian. He can tap into that ability that Harman Smith has because Garcian is the field leader of the Killer 7. (It's similar to the concept of belief that was used in the movie. "The Matrix" The we only fall, because we believe we'll fall.) In a way that passage wouldn't fit within the game, but it also could still blend in when you think of Samantha Sitbon being that "mysterious woman" who almost killed the Killer 7. Kitano Smith or was it Bloody Heartland. (I forget.) Made a convincing post linking Sitbon & the mysterious woman together. I'll dig it up sometime. Also, about Sundance (sort of). From what I understand, all of Kill the Past (plus possibly No More Heroes) takes place in one world (which is ours), and Killer7 takes place in this alternate timeline, right? But despite that, some characters are just randomly in both worlds (like Ed, Emir, and potentially-but-not-really Sundance). Killer 7 only takes place in a different timeline, because it doesn't coincide with the events in SC. (Which seems to be based off our real world timeline.) The one used in Killer 7 depicts a world where all trans communications are outlawed. Our planet has been united under a one world banner as the united nations. (Not the same united nations as real life.) Basically the setting of K7 seems to be satiring what could happen in real life if get way too carried away to abolish "terrorism" SC's timeline can't co exist with Killer 7, because people in SC still communicate to each other through internet, cell phones, & other modes of trans communication. Silver Case takes place in the present whenever the game was made. Which was the same basic concept that Persona games used to follow. The first SC game was in 1999, the SC 25 Ward took place last year. FSR was set in 2001 when that game was made. When I say that SC takes place in our world. What I mean is that it doesn't do anything too drastic with the timeline. (Such as a world united nation like in Killer 7.) However don't expect the SC timeline to be exactly like real life. SC is more of a gritty noir version of our reality. The police force in Silver Case's depiction of Japan are actually even more corrupt than the cops you'll see in L.A. The people who are supposedly our game's heroes, actually get arrested for terrorism. (That they actually did take part in.) One of SC's protagonists, Tetsugoro Kusabi. Seems to be the typical hard nosed noir detective who fights crime in the name of justice & all that other nonsense. Except Tetsugoro's kill count is higher than everyone elses through out all of Suda's games. In a way you can say that he's like the Punisher. He kills those who have committed crime. As for Ed, I think he can go where ever he wants, because he's the face of Hotel FSR. He's like the mascot. I'm not even sure if Ed actually exists, lol. He died during FSR, but he comes back during the final mission just to say his last goodbyes to Sumio Mondo. Sumio Mondo is on his way to the airport to finally diffuse the airplane bombs. After Sumio defused the airplane bombs, he had to catch the plane out of Lospass resort. However another Sumio came to airport before he did. The other Sumio turned out to be Sundance Shot who actually body snatched Sumio while he was taking a leak in a bathroom, lol. The way I see it. It's either that FSR can coexist in both realities, because FSR is a time paradox. Or IMO, the K7 time line is irrelevant, and Suda inserted Emir into NMH anyway. (No More Heroes is most obviously not part of Killer 7's timeline, because they can communicate with cell phones. Making the setting lean more toward SC, rather than K7.) IMO, the K7 setting isn't that important. If it ever gets used again. It will most likely be whenever Capcom decides to make another K7 or game with Suda. (I view K7's setting as the Capcom version of SC's setting.) Got it. And for Linda, she was supposedly working for whatever organization that wanted Emir to wake up, right? I read that on here too, and it makes sense with her dialogue when she talks to him on the bridge. That's actually not official though. It's just speculation on my part. Although it does seem to be a likely scenario since even the Japanese wikipedia lists Linda as an American agent, who strangely seems to talk down on the government. My speculation also stems from the fact that Linda looks exactly like the convict scorpion. (A japanese manga & movie character) Which imo would lean on her allegiance being towards Japan. Although it could go either way. Kitano Smith has written a pretty convincing piece about her. http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/linda2.htm Explaining that Linda is just a plot device, & that her allegiance is with whomever you decided to side with at the end of the game I understand what you mean by "doublespeak"; I read all the stuff on the site too (although I haven't checked back on the main site for a while). I wasn't clear on what I meant by "physical plot", though. What I probably was trying to say was more like how a lot of what we see in the game isn't physical and how most of it is supposed to be symbolic, and that then there's stuff that's just supposed to be confusing (like possibly Young Harman, as you brought up), and I was thinking that what you're seeing happen in the game isn't as important as what you're meant to read from the game. When you word it like that, Then yes. You are correct. The symbolism in K7 matters more than what is actually physically happening. Kinda like how in Pulp Fiction, Vincent dies in one scene, but he's alive in another, because the scenes are out of chronological order. Implying the disparity between him & Jules (Who decided to quit being a hitman, and thus is till among the living. Wheras Vinny is a dead ass bitch.) The following is a repost of what I wrote in another thread. Detailing how similar (In theme) the cases in Silver Case & the targets in K7 were. Killer 7: Not officially part of the Kill the Past universe. (Although for some reason Killer 7 still has the "Kill the Past" label in the Hand in Killer 7 guidebook. Moonlight Syndrome took place in the same world that we live in. (As does FSR & SC.) K7 has an alternate time line where we live in a one world united government. Where all trans communications have been outlawed. Originally Sundance Shot was supposed to be a bigger role in Killer 7, but for some reason he was dropped from the game. My guess is that Sundance would've overshadowed the rest of the K7 cast a lil' too much. Since he's a far more developed character than the rest of the K7. If you played the first Silver Case, you'll notice that the mission themes are almost exactly the same as K7's. The opening mission is irrelevant to the story. The first mission is the main plot. The second mission builds up on the main plot. The third mission is centraled on one character. Note: In SC, the 3r level connected Moonlight SYndrome to Silver Case, & the level revolved around Sumio, & his designs to commit a terrorist act against a city that wronged him & his friends as a kid. In K7. The 3rd level (Not including Target: angel) revolved around Dan Smith. Much of Dan Smith's level seems to be based off of the concept of the Shelter Children from Silver Case. Both the Shelter Children policy & Curtis Blackburn's black market female organs are actually sanctioned by the government. The 4rth mission is about how the media portays crime & how the information is spread. Note: In SC we learn more about a couple of rouge underground websites that spread word & knowledge of Uehara Kamui (GOD) Which in turn creates several copy cat cases of individuals who claim to be Kamui (GOD) In K7 we learn more about how propaganda is spread through the modern media. One such example is through a comic book called "The Handsome Men". The 5th mission is the level where everything goes to hell. People get killed & everybody is fucked. Except in K7's case, we find out that half of them already died a couple decades ago. Whereas in SC we actually see the political fallout unfold as everybody sides with their poltical stance & kill off the rest of opposition. In SC the only ones still standing by the end of the game. Are the people who didn't choose a side/political agenda at all. (Sakura Natsuma, Tetsugoro Kusabi, Sumio Kodai, & Tokio Morishima.) Silver Case also had an entirely different section of the game. Called the Placebo reports where you play as ex reporter Tokio Morishima. As he learns more about Uehara Kamui, & the conspiracy of the Silver Case scandal. In K7 this part of the game would've been the Jaco Checkbox reports, but obviously that part of the game didn't make into the final version at all. Heh, as you can tell from my sig, that's too late. I watched all the cutscenes already on des' Youtube account. Yeah, I've noticed. It's striaght from the true ending. I love how that piece of dialogue straight up insults typical story line conventions. Not to be pushy, but it's for the reasons you said here that I hope you update the site with more of your stuff in the relative near future. We may not be able to condense the whole thing into one little FAQ, but having your writeups and analyses all in one place would definitely be an interesting read and would probably help clear a lot of things up for a lot I'm actually in the process of reorganizing the site, because the current layout is a mess. The problem here. Is that I originally envisioned this site as a place that only recorded the political story of K7. I had not intentions of going through all the other junk that K7 throws at you, because I saw it as irrelevant. (Within the context of K7.) For my next update that I'm planning. I'm planning to get rid of the individual FSR, SC, Moonlight & NMH sites. I've decided to integrate everything underneath one hub. In order to enforce to everybody the cohesiveness of Suda's game world. Basically I'll try to be like Ogre Battle Encyclopedia. (But with Suda related content instead of Matsuno.) I feel that a database/encyclopedia layout is the only way feasible to contain all this excess information under one banner. I'm planning to combine the cast of every single character from every game into the main K7 page. Much similar to the way sites like Suikosource is laid out. Sure this might become confusing for people who only want to read about Killer 7, but I feel that this is necessary in order for everybody to understand. That K7 was never meant to be understood in it's entirety as a stand alone game. It's merely a piece of the puzzle. There are many reasons why I refuse to write a FAQ. 1. The story of K7 is constantly evolving, because K7 is just one piece of Suda's world. It's easier for I to update a website that I control. Rather than having to communicate with the admins at Gamefaqs. Who's requirements imo are a bit erratic at best. (Much of my written content gets turned down or refused by gamefaqs. Yet they have the gall to accept written content from people who write like third graders.) 2. I don't want to walk into the same trap that the plot faq did. The plot faq tried to explain everything in the world of K7. Which imo did more harm than good. His faq may make the story seem more understandable, but a lot of it wasn't really based off any sources. I typically skim through foreign websites (Most of which are linked to at my Killer links) , & I try to combine their input with my own understanding of the Suda games. I just try to log the basics & the logical process that one needs to use in order to decipher a Suda 51 plot. IMO, my way of doing things. Would make for a poor plot faq. No matter how accurate it may or may not be. Which is why I don't bother. I learn more about Suda's world through pieces & bits of information that I pick up from each of his games. As such I present my info in a similar matter. I mean, right now, the only thing we have like that is the plot guide on GameFAQs, which, while incredibly well-written, has a lot of things in it that directly go against things we know to be fact, and it totally ignores Hand in Killer7 (for example, he has a section talking about how the man with Young Harman is Johnny Gagnon, and although his reasons for it being Johnny seem to make sense, HiK7 flat-out stated it was Dimitri Nightmare). I was one of the people who actually awaited for his plot faq, because he was the only person who posted at K7 communities back than. Who actually made sense. While I too got my start from reading that plot faq. (They're the same people who also translated HIK 7.) There's also many details about his faq that I don't agree with. Such as Mizaru being Emir's mom. IMO the parable that Kun Lan told to Harman was merely a story pointing out how we all have the "killer instinct" hidden inside all of us. It has nothing to do with Emir's child hood at all. Although I see many inaccuracies with the plot faq. I have no desire to write one of my own. For reasons I have already stated above, plus one other. I believe that I do not have enough knowledge of Suda's universe to write a plot faq of my own. If I were to do one. I would do one correctly. Like Tiamat's Street Fighter II faq. Tiamat's faq is the prime example of a well written plot faq imo. Practically everything written in it is actually considered canon. The only faq I'd see myself doing is pointing out the political relevancy of Killer 7 to real world politics. Which I have already done. (My faq is the website itself.) In the future I'm planning to put all the K7 politics underneath one section called "politics", lol. I actually wasn't aware FSR was getting a US release. I knew SC was (but not that it was both games in one), and that FSR was getting a DS release, but now that's two games I should check out. FSR hasn't been announced for U.S. release yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't IMO FSR has a better chance to succeed in the West, because that game is less dialogue heavy, & the game plays more like Dreamfall or an rpg without battles. SC is a pure text based game. There are some 3-d environments that you navigate through, but the control scheme is more similar to Killer 7's. The first SC isn't anywhere near as polished as Hideo Kojima's Snatcher & Policenauts. ALthough if you can get over SC's lack of polish. You will be rewarded with one of the most unique settings I've ever seen. (SC reminds moi of SHin Megami Tensei without the demons.)

Now that you mention it like that, I get it. Emir has Multifoliate Personae Phenomenon because he believes he does so strongly. I understand that now. The funny thing is... This pic spits in the face of my theory. Although if we were to take this pic as canon. (It's from the HIK 7 build.) It would also conflict with what is said in the game & HIK 7. Who's who? Is that Dan looking at himself as Garcian, or the other way around? and the characters appearing in both timelines is just one of those things you're not supposed to think about. The inclusion of Ed Macalister could make sense though, but I believe that the Capcom time line is just a spin off as you said. (I can't imagine Suda ever using the Killer7/Capcom setting again.) I believe I saw that one or two days ago. It does seem to prove your point about how they're connected like that, and it's an interesting read as well. Suda himself has once remarked about how K7 was sort of like a remake of SC. (In theme. As in Suda wanted to make a game that's completely different from anything that's ever been made before.) Scenes of Killer 7's bank heist. Depicts a scenario that's very similar to the scene in Silver Case when Uehara Kamui is running around in some mall killing random women. Note: Notice how the Heaven Smile originally look human. Which coincides with Silver Case & it's slew of victims who kill themselves in the name of god (kamui) http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/silver/silversuicide.swf Or something like that... This also sounds familiar to "In the name of Harman" BTW Kamui actually wasn't killing people at a mall. It was random people killing themselves as a way to get closer to god. (I think, I'm not sure.) The real Kamui was actually stuffed inside Ayame Shimohira's closet. (Sumio develops some what of a crush on Ayame.) Ayame Shimohira Shimohira, the woman who felt & spoked to Kamui. Ayame's actually higher on the spiritual hierarchy than Kamui is, or at least that's what I've read. I can't tell you much about her character. All I know is that she gets arrested for attempted murder of a cop, suicide & harboring a wanted fugitive. (You only see her during the first chapter of SC. The mission that happens after the intro Moonlight Syndrome mission.) I read some of that guide, thought Killer7 was awesome, and turned around and started reciting the guide as gospel truth when people on GameFAQs asked plot-related questions. Then I did more research, decided to look for Killer7 fansites, and started lurking here (around the beginning of this year, in fact), and that changed my whole perception of Killer7. Yeah, what most people forget. Is that James Clinton Howell wants you to make your own speculations of K7 after reading his plot guide. Although for some reason, a lot of people tend to ignore that part of his faq. (see Tiamat's FAQ; I also think it's pretty much the perfect plot FAQ, but wouldn't it look even better if it was in some kind of website format and a little more easily navigable? I too would prefer if Tiamat's faq were a website. That way we could have access to pictures, scans, the soucres & the like. But that's prolly the reason why it's a faq. (Less work. The main problem with a website, is that the majority you're actually spending most of your day time working on the layout rather than the written content itself.) Kaede (who is having an affair with the woman that would be "Mizaru" in Emir's mind), Coyote (he's just some random fuck who was also sleeping with Kaede) Hmm, what's going on here? Sounds like a kinky threesome.

Hmm, what's going on here? Sounds like a kinky threesome. Nothing man, I just feel like drawing a hot lesbian sex scene. The Coyote bit is direcly taken from what the game implies, I think... Wait, or was that Mask? I forget. Be it Coyote - he's the one who speaks Japanese and kind of reminds me of TEAH. That Kamui in the closet bit is awfuly similar to the Harman in the safe from Killer7... It really looks like Killer7 is kind of Silver Case and FSR recycled. Maybe Killer7 was suda's way of -*test*-('")ing a SC on the west side, to see how an audience reacts? Even so I think suda should've went with the SC tone. It's more classy. I like k7's slightly humorous tone, but I can't help but imagine how it would look like if he kept SC's ambiance.

Nothing man, I just feel like drawing a hot lesbian sex scene. The Coyote bit is direcly taken from what the game implies, I think... Ah man so you mean that Coyote doesn't get it on with two babes at the same time? Wait, or was that Mask? I forget. Be it Coyote - he's the one who speaks Japanese and kind of reminds me of TEAH. That's actually who I thought of myself, when I found out that Coyote speaks Japanese. (Despite the fact that Coytoe is Puerto Rican & Teah is Brazilian... I think.) The way I see it Dan is a Caucasian man who's influenced by Hong Kong (John Woo) action flicks. Coyote well, he reminds moi of that Teah guy from the Miike movies. Garcian is pretty much an Afircan Indian (American) man who's deeply influenced by Japanese culture. (Like Bear Walken from Gun Grave.) Not only does Garcian adopt Japan's cultural mannerisms, but he also adopts some of their subculture as well. (His No More Heroes incarnation looks like a japanese yankii/thug.) That Kamui in the closet bit is awfuly similar to the Harman in the safe from Killer7... It really looks like Killer7 is kind of Silver Case and FSR recycled. Maybe Killer7 was suda's way of -*test*-('")ing a SC on the west side, to see how an audience reacts? Yeah, I noticed that ever since I first played SC. I'm thoroughly convinced that the Jaco checkbox reports were originally supposed to be playable. Much similar to Tokio Morishima's Placebo reports of the Silver Case. In Silver Case you play as both your main character who conducts the cases, & Tokio Morishima who files the placebo reports. Which give analytical insight to the cases that your main character has already concluded. The main difference with Kamui & Harman is that Kamui is actually alive while being jammed inside that closet. (lol) He's just strangely obedient for some reason to Ayame. It should also be noted that it was Ayame's apartment room where we get our first glance of "Kill the Past" website for the first time during the Silver Case. (I think that website had a significant role in Moonlight Syndrome as well. I'm not sure, because I never played it.)

So that Ayame Shimohira is actually the mastermind behind the going ons in Kamui's stead? What the hell happened to Kamui to end up in that sorry state and inside some girl's closet? About Coyote and KAEDE, I don't really feel like drawing some guy's naked ass unless I really have to. But, there's some Emir on Vermillion action going on circa 1973.

The funny thing is... This pic spits in the face of my theory. Although if we were to take this pic as canon. (It's from the HIK 7 build.) It would also conflict with what is said in the game & HIK 7. Who's who? Is that Dan looking at himself as Garcian, or the other way around? Strange. I guess you could say it's maybe Dan channeled through Garcian and seeing "himself" in the mirror, or at least that's what I thought of. I guess it's equally possible that it's just nothing, but there's no way to tell. The inclusion of Ed Macalister could make sense though, but I believe that the Capcom time line is just a spin off as you said. (I can't imagine Suda ever using the Killer7/Capcom setting again.) Makes sense. But, as we've seen from NMH, Suda will probably use Killer7-originated elements (at least, the stuff that wasn't from SC) in future games. Probably. Suda himself has once remarked about how K7 was sort of like a remake of SC. (In theme. As in Suda wanted to make a game that's completely different from anything that's ever been made before.) Scenes of Killer 7's bank heist. Depicts a scenario that's very similar to the scene in Silver Case when Uehara Kamui is running around in some mall killing random women. Note: Notice how the Heaven Smile originally look human. Which coincides with Silver Case & it's slew of victims who kill themselves in the name of god (kamui) http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/silver/silversuicide.swf Or something like that... This also sounds familiar to "In the name of Harman" BTW Kamui actually wasn't killing people at a mall. It was random people killing themselves as a way to get closer to god. (I think, I'm not sure.) Yeah, pretty clear connections there, even besides the fact that Suda said they were anyway. And that reinforces the whole thing about wanting people to digest Kill the Past and not just Killer7, too. I like the design of the Heaven Smiles that they ended up going with over the one that they used in those screenshots, though. The real Kamui was actually stuffed inside Ayame Shimohira's closet. Like Kitano, that reminded me of Killer7, but it made me think more of the physical Kun Lan in the underground facility than the one Harman in the safe. Partially because Kun Lan is apparently derived from Kamui anyway, but also like how both of them are being held and used to do all this other stuff and being used as "figureheads". Yeah, what most people forget. Is that James Clinton Howell wants you to make your own speculations of K7 after reading his plot guide. Although for some reason, a lot of people tend to ignore that part of his faq. Yeah, that was me. I did see that, but I ignored it because it was convenient and easier for me to just take it as the truth. Plus, at the time, it all made too much sense (and some of it still does). I too would prefer if Tiamat's faq were a website. That way we could have access to pictures, scans, the soucres & the like. But that's prolly the reason why it's a faq. (Less work. The main problem with a website, is that the majority you're actually spending most of your day time working on the layout rather than the written content itself.) That's another good reason for that. So I guess the choice depends on the style of the information being presented and the author's own preferences.

Man! I didn't know it would become this intense! My brain is twitching, I better lie down! That is probably why I am confused from the beginning, there is just sooooo much stuff to absorb that you don't even get to see unless thinking crazily. So sorry guys to interrupt but this is the first time re-checking the forums from my last question with that very good reply :) So dumb question, but I think I get the whole Persona thing, Garcian IS Emir, which is why he looks like Emir, but Emir is really this random kid and yeah all of that stuff who thinks he is Garcian because he wanted to protect his mind and then a bunch of stuff happened in between this and after. But then Topdrunkee you said that Harman is Garcian?! I thought Emir was? Did Harman kill somebody named Garcian, absorb his personality for protection, then give it up to the Kid who was renamed Emir? Also, just to get straight to the point (come on guys I am not a genious like you!) for a question though, IS HARMAN ALIVE? Yes or no? Please?! Because I mean, you see him dead in front of the maze room where you chase Iwarzu who is this guy that is like a limbo of Kun Lan and Harman's control, and he gets shot along with Kun Lan a thousand times, and then he's young, and then he's old, and then he is ancient 100 years later in Shanghai, and then he is asleep because he was wounded by Dan, and then AHHH!!!!

I'm not Topdrunkee, but I'll do what I can from my understanding. But then Topdrunkee you said that Harman is Garcian?! I thought Emir was? Did Harman kill somebody named Garcian, absorb his personality for protection, then give it up to the Kid who was renamed Emir? As I've got it, there really was a separate person named Garcian Smith who was killed and absorbed by Harman. Emir deluded himself into believing that he was Garcian, but from what I get, we don't actually see the original Garcian at any point in the game; just Emir who is copying his personality and Harman's special ability (what I mean by that is that Emir hasn't actually been absorbed by Harman and is probably not connected to him in any kind of spiritual way; it's just that Emir (as long as he thinks he's Garcian) has the same personality-switching ability that Harman does (only because he thinks he does so strongly)). Also, just to get straight to the point (come on guys I am not a genious like you!) for a question though, IS HARMAN ALIVE? Yes or no? Please?! Because I mean, you see him dead in front of the maze room where you chase Iwarzu who is this guy that is like a limbo of Kun Lan and Harman's control, and he gets shot along with Kun Lan a thousand times, and then he's young, and then he's old, and then he is ancient 100 years later in Shanghai, and then he is asleep because he was wounded by Dan, and then AHHH!!!! Harman is alive, but he's not normal. He's sort of like a "god" figure, similar (but not the same) as Kun Lan, and he exists on another plane of existence (as more of an ideal than an actual person, though). He has several incarnations (other bodies) that he appears in throughout the game, and some (at least one, anyway) have died, but he still lives on (in his own way). His having multiple incarnations supposedly is supposed to tie into The Silver Case, another game made by Suda51 earlier. This is going from my interpretation and it may not be perfect, but I'm pretty sure that it's correct or at least as close to it as we can get from what we know.

Hey what was with the part in Chapter Four with the two kids with old guy voices? I just realized I never knew what that part was about.

Here's some prototypes of the new layout. http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/unnew.htm As you can see, it's much less... post modern, lol. (I even quote word meanings in quotations now, rather than leave the web surfer to figure it out.) http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/games.htm Killer 7 "This is the true story...of seven strangers...picked to live in a hotel...work together, and have their lives stripped...to find out what happens when people stop being polite...and start getting real, real fucking insane ...The Real United World against Terrorism." Silver Case Future, age, past, magnificent country, Terrorism, I , the Silver Case Sakura Natsume: Have you ever..".. heard such an expression ?' ..'.. The answer is in Kamui (God). Kamui (God) is not here. Kamui (God) is within our population. She only cries out for Kamui (God)? I'm trying to emulate the feel of the http://www.mulholland-drive.net/home.htm website. Since that site did a thorough job of giving I a grounded base of the logic of that movie. (My character & investigate pages will be structurally similar to the studies/theories pages of the Mulholland drive site.) Yeah, that was me. I did see that, but I ignored it because it was convenient and easier for me to just take it as the truth. Plus, at the time, it all made too much sense (and some of it still does). Nah, you're or were are just one of many. A lot of people take the plot faq as the gospel. Although imo the faq takes way too much liberties in order to make K7 sound like a coherent story. K7's world is based off of our perception of the world. We don't know all the answers to life, death & spirituality. (If one of us does, than good for them. They be some kind of god or some shit, heh heh.) Why should we be able to piece together all the "logic" in Killer 7, If we don't even know all the answers to similar "spiritual" topics in our real life? Both the faq & K7 SIN are based off the same foundations, but our approach is completely different. I refuse to tell people what to think. (I only want to present clues & point toward the right direction. If I think someone is completely off base than I call them on it, but that's about it.) Whereas the faq actually gives you solid answers. Which wouldn't be a problem. I just feel that some bits & pieces of K7 were never meant to be answered. (They were meant to be interpreted, like a Lynch film.) So that Ayame Shimohira is actually the mastermind behind the going ons in Kamui's stead? What the hell happened to Kamui to end up in that sorry state and inside some girl's closet? Kamui wasn't in a sorry state at all, but I'll describe what he did up on to that point. The first chapter (After the intro Moonlight Syndrome homage chap.) Starts off with live action footage of a young japanese woman in her 20's. Desperately running away from someone. She eventually runs into Uehara Kamui at a mall. We assume that he killed her after that. The screen fades back to the night before... Kamui broke out of his asylum prison armed with only a knife. He escaped through a forest & starting picking off everybody predator style. He eventually kills an entire platoon of republic peace special forces (cops). This is when Daigo Natsume say's his fabled line "Have you ever heard such an expression? 'Flower, sun, and rain' the answer is in Kamui (God)." (I'm not sure who says that line. It was either Daigo or his daughter Sakura Natsume.) The only survivor is the character you play as, who later gets transferred to the Felonious 2nd division. (Or as the GHM site calls them, The HMD) Note: I think Felonious is a mis spelling of Felonies, but that's the way it's spelled in the game. After Kamui nearly kills you, the screen fades out to Tetsugoro & Sumio talking about random ass bullshit. (Like a Tarrantino movie.) They get a call from Chizuru Hachisuka, detailing to them about a girl who was recently murdered. (In reality she committed suicide.) Hachisuka then tells them that Kamui escaped from his cell block. This leads to some polaroid picture of an Uehara Kamui sighting with a bald head. (This is why I feel that Emir in NMH is the same exact guy from K7. If people in Silver Case can get hair cuts & shit. Than I don't see why K7 can't.) As I said earlier Kamui is strangely loyal to Ayame Shimohira. IMO, I think Kamui actually likes being gagged & tied up in bondage by Ayame. Ayame doesn't really pull any strings, neither does Kamui. (Kamui is a scapegoat.) Ayame's main purpose is that should Kamui ever die he'll just be reborn again through Ayame's fetus. (She'll give birth to another Kamui. Remember how Kun Lan is said to be born as a full grown adult? HIK7 actually pulled that from SC.) The last time we see Ayame is when she's about to shoot her mouth wide open, but then the shelter children convince her not to pull the trigger. (She gets arrested after that.) I think the reason why Ayame Shimohira is considered the highest in the spiritual food chain is because she probably has some relation to the Mulholland Mother. (There's also a street called Mulholland Drive in Silver Case, but it's not based off the movie at all. SC was made in 1999. 2 yrs. before the movie.) Back to Kamui... Kamui is actually one of the first to die in the final scenario of the game. http://www.killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/silver/silverkamuiuehara.swf (Kamui is getting gunned down by an entire swat team.) When ever Kamui dies the divine spirit of Kamui manifest's in another seed that would later create an avatar for Kamui's physical being. Like I said in another thread the two most prominent families in Silver Case are the Hachisuka's & the Sundance Shot family. The Hachisuka's are the ones who have been manipulating most of the events. They fabricated a cover story that placed all the blame on Sundance Shot. Fujiwara Kamui 20 yrs. before the events of the game. Sundance Shot originally sent an assassin named Fujiwara Kamui to assassinate the CCO/TRO execs who were having a political meeting at the top of a tv tower that is owned by the Hachisuka. Sundance Shot was trying to put a stop to a policy that undermined & exploited the lower classes of the 24 ward. (You don't learn why he was so desperate to put a stop to the meeting until the ending of FSR.) Well you know the drill, Fujiwara killed a couple of politicians, Fujiwara gets killed, the rest of the TRO/CCO at the meeting kill each other trying to steal Fujiwara's silver eye from his dead body. Chizuru's father retrieved the eye through a proxy, and gave it to his scientist Nez. (Who then created the Uehara Kamui conspiracy.) Since the murders originated by Sundance's interference through one of his assassins. The deaths of the TRO/CCO personell at the tv tower were added up to Fujiwara Kamui's death toll, and then the fabrication/cover story known as the "Silver Case" was born. The only time we ever see Sundance is during the intro, but his presence can be felt through out the entire game, since much of the game revolves around events that he was involved in decades prior to the start of the game. This chart is from the instruction manual. The 4 most prominent powers are situated in the middle. None of them show up in the game at all. Although everything that does happen in the first SC game. Happened because of the power struggle between those 4. Note: The guy to the left Sakura is actually named Kenta. I need to correct that some time. (I have no idea what the Muholland mother does, besides breed freaks like them & Kamui.) But, as we've seen from NMH, Suda will probably use Killer7-originated elements (at least, the stuff that wasn't from SC) in future games. Probably. I'm curious. WHat did NMH use that was from K7? Besides Emir. He doesn't really count imo. I've always envisioned him as being given a role in a future Silver Case game as some random hitman that Sumio & co. conduct cases on, but never capture. I like the design of the Heaven Smiles that they ended up going with over the one that they used in those screenshots, though. I prefer the humans with joker smiles, because it looks more "dark" Plus one of the main reasons why Jaco Checkbox hunts down Kun Lan is because Jaco was also at that same exact bank heist. He saw his wife & his daughter at that bank, but they were turned by the hand of god. They had joker smiles on their face & no longer recognized him. They tried to kill him & he fought back killing them first. It's this incident at that bank that led the Jaco checkbox guy to manipulate Samantha into manipulating Harman (Who in turn would direct the Killer 7.) to kill all those targets during the Killer 7 game. IMO, it seems like that scene would've had more emotional impact if the Smiles remained looking human. (Not that it matters, the bank heist wasn't even included in the game.) Hey what was with the part in Chapter Four with the two kids with old guy voices? I just realized I never knew what that part was about. That probably has something to do with the Shelter children policy, but I'm just gasping at straws here. Shelter children are merely cattle composed of orphans who in turn get chopped up to build bodies to contain Kamui/God. This same exact concept is also used in Killer 7, but in the form of Heaven Smile. (Encounter/Pedro & Curtis) I need to hear or see a transcript of their dialogue in order to figure out what that's about. Harman is alive, I'm honestly not sure if Harman is alive. (As in normal human form, not a godly entity. It's obvious that he still exists in celestial form.) He's very similar to the Camilla Rhodes figure in Mulholland Drive. For all we know every Harman we see may just be a projection, & the only real Harman is the one inside the safe. (The rest may be random nobodies dressed up like Harman who also act & pretend to be Harman.) The rest of what you said sounds good though. That is probably why I am confused from the beginning, there is just sooooo much stuff to absorb that you don't even get to see unless thinking crazily. Also, just to get straight to the point (come on guys I am not a genious like you!) Nah, I'm no genius. I'm actually a high school drop out. I'm just a fucked up psycho with way too much free time. That's why both the plot faq & this site is needed. The plot faq is written by a guy who is book smart, well read & has several phds. So his faq is needed for a more straight forward analysis. This site is written by a typical eccentric art snob nut case. As such I'm able to analyze & piece together all this abstract bullshit, because that's the way my mind works. I view everything from a different perspective. It has nothing to do with being smart, or one's own I.Q. level. I just see the little details that others can not, because I approach the subject matter from different view points & angles than most.

An eccentric, art snob, nut case, that we all love! Its quite useful to know you. I, myself, having been noticing things in games/movies just because I'm forcing myself into a different perspective, since I've been talking to you.